This week Bonnie Shay our upcoming co-host for July. We are excited to have the upcoming podcast guests Bonnie is introducing us to and what they will be sharing. Bonnie also shared with us multiple ways of storytelling. She explained that many people don't think they have a story to tell or there isn't a story inside of them, but that isn't the case at all. You don't want to miss this podcast.
Podcast Guest: Bonnie Shay: Bonnie@mariposaphotoorganizing.com
Bonnie's Company Website: https://mariposaphotoorganizing.com/
Transcription:
Kris Parsons00:03
Welcome to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do it too. Join us with your lively host Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world.
Ray Loewe00:17
Good morning, everybody. And welcome to scenic Woodbury, New Jersey, where we're at the studios of wildfire podcasting. And we're here with our engineer Taylor, who's going to make sure that, this podcast actually airs the way it's supposed to. And our podcast today is gonna be a little different because we have a co-host for the month of July and her name is Bonnie Shay. And Bonnie and I decided to do kind of a prep podcast because what she's bringing to the table is so new and so interesting that we kind of wanted to give you a preview and kind of give you some tips on why you want to listen to this and how you might want to listen. So Bonnie Shay say hello. Hello, everybody. Good morning. And Bonnie has been on our podcast before. So she may sound familiar to you. And Bonnie is Chicago-based. And she has a firm called Mariposa photo organizing and Bonnie has done a couple of things for me long ago. And also far away. She helped me organize my photos in a Zen folio portfolio. And so I have a photo website now and she did a magnificent job of that. And then I think she decided that I was too boring. And she decided to transition her business away from digital photographs to paper photographs. Is that right, Bonnie?
Bonnie Shay01:48
I don't know the boring part is right. But yes, I'm only working on printed photo collections now.
Ray Loewe01:53
Yeah. And you seem to be intrigued. And,you're known in some circles as the photo detective, I think. Right?
Bonnie Shay02:04
Yeah, it's Yeah, it's like being a detective. I love it.
Ray Loewe02:07
Okay, so anyway, Bonnie's got a tremendous amount of background in storytelling. And she's what we're going to talk today about is we're going to, I guess the title of this, Bonnie is the power of a story. Is that where we're going? Yes. Okay. And stories are so, so powerful. And let's talk a little bit for a minute on why they're so powerful, and why people need to take an interest in this. So I know I can start this off by you know, a lot of people as they get older, want to be remembered. Or they have a mission that they've been on or a story to tell. They want to be able to tell that story and how to tell it right? And, stories help us communicate better, and stories help us maybe have better relationships with grandchildren. And so, add to this, Bonnie, why do we want to learn to tell stories?
Bonnie Shay03:10
Well, I sort of consider that stories, provide four general things. And I want to preface that with that I think we all appreciate stories differently during the course of our life, I think we appreciate pictures differently in the course of our life as well, but then sort of a subset of stories. So I can say that at my age at 62 almost. Stories are more meaningful to me than ever before, and true stories to be very specific are my favorite. But the four general things I think stories do for us as human beings are one they educate and instruct. So I want to share this funny story that I think back to how bored I was in history class in school, because they often just recited facts and figures and details. And we were supposed to memorize all of that. Well, I think to myself, they had taught us more through stories, I would have paid better attention, and probably learned more. So for me, biographies are my favorite ways of learning about history because they're stories, someone's life, but it really gives you a good, you know, information, to educate and instruct,
Ray Loewe04:22
Can I amplify on that a little bit? Because I think that's a really good point. I mean, you know, we all went through these teachers in our lives, and some of them were notable, and some of them were not. And you know, when I go back and think about it, the ones that told the stories, the one that the ones that put everything in a story format, are much more memorable, and I got much more out of the class. And I think this is true when you're talking to your grandchildren to, you know, kids remember stories, you know, they tend not to remember facts. So I think that's a really good point. And anyway, sorry I interrupted, go on, please.
Bonnie Shay05:01
No, that's good. Cuz I'm going to add one more thing because you just made me think of this, we think of our teachers and the really boring ones that were dry, like, you know, stood at a lectern, and just lectured to us really dryly, but sort of no facial emotion. You know, we all fell asleep and didn't learn. But if you have someone tell a story, they're more likely to be animated, you know, because they're like, it's alive, it comes alive. So I think that's another layer of,
Ray Loewe05:29
you know, we just went through this whole COVID thing and zoom became either our best friend, our worst enemy, or something in between. and I think one of the big problems that we had, were communicating with children and grandchildren, during this period of time, and I know that a number of people did better when they had storytime with their grandchildren, and whether they read stories or whether they made up stories and I remember talking to, to at least one person, and names are going to elude me right now. But the idea of grandpa got on the phone with his grandchildren, and once a week, and creators a story and sometimes put pictures in that story. So please continue Miss Bonnie.
Bonnie Shay06:21
Well, I'm gonna mention that that story you just shared with us, we're gonna hear it on our podcast, because that was from Donna Lubow, who is one of our podcasts people coming up this month. So it all connects, it all connects. So another way stories add to our life is they entertain us, as we know, they can make us laugh, they can make us cry, you know, they can be bittersweet, but they give us a variety of emotions. So we just connect with them. I also think stories, documents, people, places, things, events, you know, a lot of information woven into the story. So I like that it preserves information for now and for future generations so that it's always available. And then to me, lastly, the big piece of what I think stories provides that I learned a lot on recent months and more elaborated on it as we talk. stories can be therapeutic, both for the writer and or the listener, they can vary. They can be, very powerful.
Ray Loewe07:27
You know, I think I came back from a lot of travel. And we have a mutual friend Rebecca Hoffman, who's also been one of our co-hosts on our show a while ago. And she's big into storytelling too. And she helped me craft a number of stories. And when you come back from a trip, or you come back from any kind of event, weaving things into a story makes you more interesting and more memorable. I remember going over to a friend's house and their trip was not a story it was 543 photographs of a trip. And I think that gets old really fast. But the ones that show a relatively smaller number of photos and things like that, and tell stories about their experiences and add the flavors and the colors and the scenes and the noise and everything else that came in are much more interesting to talk to. So we have these four things, we have the fact that stories are educational, they're entertaining, they can be documentary, and they can be therapeutic. Do you want to spend a couple of minutes on therapeutic?
Bonnie Shay08:45
Um, yes. So I, during this pandemic, joined a memoir class, and it was on zoom, and there were about a dozen of us. And the teacher before class gave us some prompts. So that we could each write, a version of our memoir, and not a version of a slice of our memoir. And so I came to the first class, you know, we all came we had turned our homework in because we didn't want detention after class that night. So the teacher said she was going to read them for all of us. And what was very interesting is one of the people that was there asked the teacher if she could read her own, like she didn't think she liked the idea of the teacher reading the story and the teacher very politely said to her, I would like to read it because you will hear it very differently coming out of my mouth as the teacher than if you read your own words. And it was unbelievable Ray, Who would have ever thought of this little tweak. But when you hear someone else saying your word, it's almost like you're reading someone else's words yourself and sort of the reverse of that. So that was very powerful. But we have about 12 people In the class, and the teacher read all of the stories, and we're listening. And we give feedback to each other after each story so that people can get feedback how their story was to the listeners. But a lot of the people were they're sharing very traumatic and heartbreaking stories from their childhood. Oh, you know, I won't go into detail. But it was unbelievable some of these stories. And it was heartbreaking. But what I realized it was therapeutic. A for the writer because they had gone through the process of writing their story, they were brave and courageous to share it, obviously, we were in a safe environment, you know, they knew who was there. But it was very therapeutic for them to write and share. And this was from way back in their life. And to me, it was also therapeutic for the listeners, because we were maybe relating to some of our own stories, or just recognizing that these people were brave, and what stories can do for all of us.
Ray Loewe11:03
Okay, let's, take a minute because when we were prepping for this call, you were talking also about different ways of telling a story. And then after you give us the list, I'd like to go and talk a little bit about the people that you're going to be bringing into our podcast over the month of July, and what they do and how they do it differently. And then I want to come back and talk about the fact that everybody has a story because many of us don't think we do. So let's talk about the different ways to tell a story first.
Bonnie Shay11:38
Yeah, so to me, the different types of stories are the written word, the spoken word, photos, videos, and movies. And then you can get into the cultural arts, like dance. People tell stories through dance, through visual art, you know, they could paint a story. Pantomime, you know, think of Marcel Marceau, you told us stories, music of any sort, you know, instruments or singing. And then comics, animation cartoons, tell us stories. You know, a lot of us grew up reading comic books, but we were reading stories. So those are the different types of stories that I came up with.
Ray Loewe12:20
Okay, so you are bringing a number of guests to our podcast. And thank you for that because I think the benefit of having a co-host here that's different every month or so is that we get a different flavor of people coming in. So let's talk about a couple of the people that you're going to introduce to us. And let's start on, well let you start with where you want to start.
Bonnie Shay12:47
Eeny meeny miney Moe, let's talk about Arielle. Okay, Arielle Nobile and Ray, why don't you share what you know of her.
Ray Loewe12:55
You've met her? Well, I know Arielle is a filmmaker of note. Excuse me. And she is working for some of the people that we've actually had on our podcast before. So I have met her, she's a delightful person and she is extraordinarily creative and now tell me more Bonnie.
Bonnie Shay13:18
Well, she basically has her niche or her focus are documentary films. So she's not making films that she's trying to provide for an Academy Award and hiring, hiring actors and actresses and all that. She's interviewing people who want their family's story told. So she and I have collaborated. In fact, that's how we met she needed a photo organizer to help with one of her films. Because what she does is she merges together, the interviews she does, and then we've digitized printed photos. We've digitized old movie clips, and then she weaves them together into the end result. So she's focused, go ahead,
Ray Loewe14:01
No, go ahead. And so she would be. She's gonna talk to a large extent about people who know they have a story. Okay. Either they built a business, they built a family. They've done something creative in their life. And this story needs to be told and they want to document it for eternity. Right. Is that pretty much where we're going there? Correct. Okay, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So let's take one of the other people you're going to introduce us to because it's different. It is different. How about Michelle?
Bonnie Shay14:37
Yes. So Michelle Heftman is someone who I met relatively recently and we live near each other. And what she does is she helps people with their photo collections, but I help people with their personal photo collections, photos of themselves. What Michelle does is she has clients who have collected photos taken by other people, quite a few that were infamous, you know, photographers that we would recognize names of in our history. And they have these huge collections, they might have hundreds or 1000s of collections. And what she does, and she'll share a lot of interesting stories with us is, organizes them documents them. And then sometimes just like general antique dealers, they sometimes reach a limit of how much that they can have on their collection. So they let go of some antique so that they can bring in some new. So think of that. That's what Michelle does. So work with her client to let go of a few sell them, to make room to come in with their collection with some new pieces. Yeah.
Ray Loewe15:49
She also, well help people that have collections that are notable and set them up for display in a museum or an exhibit of some kind.
Bonnie Shay16:00
Exactly. And one of her most passionate projects right now is someone who has collected photos specifically along the theme of social justice. And so they're working with a local institution here in Chicago to have an exhibit because the client wants people to be educated by their photos besides being just visually, you know, interesting.
Ray Loewe16:27
Okay, so let's talk about Donna, again, this is a totally different way of looking at things.
Bonnie Shay16:35
Right. So Donna Lubow founded short story theater here in my community about seven or eight years ago. And it's basically having amateurs just people like you and me, you know, once again, not actors and actresses telling a story. And you are suggest that you come up with a story between 10 and 12 minutes in length, and it has to be a true, that's the one rule it has to be a true story. And then you go and you perform it. And she picks four people each time, she has this event, pre-pandemic. And it takes place in a local restaurant with a, you know, a back room, and there's about 50 people, most of the people, there are friends and families of the storytellers. But then some people have just come just to enjoy. And it's been going on for eight years, and the stories that are told and the people you meet, and I've performed several times, and she's just a fascinating woman that has other background stuff. So I really thought it'd be fun to have her on the show.
Ray Loewe17:38
Okay, so we're gonna have three really creative new people in the month of July. And maybe we'll add a fourth in there somewhere, but the idea is, these are people who can show us how to tell stories in different ways. Now, let's back up a little bit and dwell a little bit or spend a little more time on this concept of why do you want to tell a story? Why bother? I mean, I talk to a lot of people and they say, I don't have a story. Nobody wants to hear about me or my life or my experiences. And I find 99% of the time. That's not true.
Bonnie Shay18:18
You're absolutely right. And I can have two examples of that. One was from one of your own podcasts when you interviewed Nora Kerr, who has a memoir writer that I've known here in Chicago for a while. And she shared with us some of the challenges she has in the work that she does. And she shared with us, you know, as listeners that she would be hired by an adult child, and she had to contact the parent to interview them because that's who story she was going to be telling. So she'd call mom or dad, whoever the, you know, the story was going to be about, and she'd say, so let's make a date. You know, so I can hear your story and interview, et cetera. And the people oftentimes will reply, I don't have a story. I'm nobody special, who will want to read my story. It's not important, and you know, sort of play down their story. Be beyond humble, right? And so Nora came up with a great way to ask them to spin it around. And she would say, Susie, for conversation just using a name. Susie, how wonderful would it be if you had your parent's story written down and documented to be able to read and appreciate and value and it was like, magic in a split second, these people would switch their minds and say, oh, and they would get it. So it's not like she's trying to raid, you know, write a story about a famous person that's going to sell 100,000 copies. That's not for who her audiences. It's the children, it's the grandchildren, etc. So I thought that was a great way to spin it around. And I've used that with my own clients, Ray. Because some people who call me to want to hire me, they tell me, I don't know what to do with my photos. My kids tell me they don't want them. You know, there's too many boxes of them. I don't want, they don't want them. And I very courteously and diplomatically explain. we all appreciate photos in different ways in different parts of our lives. And maybe where these children are right now, they don't get it. But they will be sorry, they don't have your photos if you're gone and not here to tell the stories photographically or orally. So that gives my clients a real sense of Okay, our kids may not get it right now. But someday, and we don't want to get to that point. Right. When it's too late.
Ray Loewe20:50
Yeah, that's what Nora has said to and, handing him a box of photos that are on organizes, is why I want to throw them out. You know, but their stories in there, that can be told and I think it was Nora that mentioned the fact that she had written a story about her father, just before he died. And one day she went in to check on her son. And here he was awake reading the book about her father. Yes. So there are reasons everybody's got stories, and everybody really needs to think about telling them and I think you're right, Bonnie, you go back and you say, would I have liked to have had more information about my parents? Would I have liked to know more about my grandparents? And almost invariably The answer is yes. And so why wouldn't they want to hear your story, too? Okay. Let's, talk a little bit about some of the other reasons may be that people want to tell stories it has to do with the fact that we have grandchildren that we want to communicate with? And how do you work with them? How do you, you know, what's the best vehicle to be part of your grandchildren's lives? And I think stories have a place in there. Any other comments about why we want to tell stories and why we're gonna want to listen to these people coming up?
Bonnie Shay22:29
Well, when I think I tell people is there's no one way to tell a story. And each of us have different strengths and different interests. So let me go back to the memoir writing class that I was at. First I signed up for I want to do it, but at first, I'm like, if someone told me to sit down or write a memoir, I'd sit down at my desk, and I look at a blank piece of paper and say, Oh, my gosh, where do I start? What do I say? I don't know. Or if I had a, you know, a blank screen on my computer, because I was going to type it like, oh, gee, it's like, how could I just start with a blank piece of paper. But when our teacher gave us prompts, one-word prompts, I'll give you some examples, right? Few prompts, were maps, fifth grade, nicknames, pets. I mean, they were random, they were all over the board, any topic, the minute I would see one of those prompts fifth grade, it would take me back to fifth grade. And I'd say, Oh, I remember that day. And I would sit down at my computer. And I would bang out five pages in a matter of minutes. Because you have a particular place that you went right back to. So it's not like I'm trying to tell my life story. Bonnie was born in 1959 and then go through that story. So you're just taking a slice. So I think people maybe get scared about doing stories because they think well, what am I going to tell or it's gonna be too long or whatever. But a prompt is really a very specific way to do it. So I think it's an easy way to start. And let me remind people, our listeners, you're the only person that can tell your story. Right? So it's for you to do, no one else is going to write it. And so we want to hear from your perspective. Exactly.
Ray Loewe24:24
Yeah. And you know, one other thing that I know you do is when you're organizing people's photographs, you start to sit down and talk to them about what happened in that photograph. And all of a sudden stories appear. And so there are lots of places to start here. And I think what we want or at least what I'd like our listeners to do is to think about the stories that you would like to tell and don't cut it off. And stay tuned over the next month because you're going to hear some incredible people talk about why stories are important and how to tell them in different ways to and then sit down and be creative with your past and figure out how you're going to tell it to your kids, your grandchildren, and maybe other people in some cases. So we're almost out of time. And I know you had a couple of quotes that you wanted to get on the table. So it's quote time Bonnie.
Bonnie Shay25:20
quotes time, okay. So what really turned me on to stories A number of years ago is, I had the book 1000 places to see before you die, which I'm guessing a lot of people have heard about, or maybe even have a copy. And one of my favorite pieces of that book was in the introduction, the quote is, There's no such thing as a bad trip. Just good travel stories to tell back home." And once again, it's sort of outlines that the more memorable happenings are the things that you're going to remember. And things when they don't go as planned, are oftentimes more memorable. So think about, you know, Ray, maybe you have an example. But I tell people think about, have you been to a wedding or a birthday party or a trip or some kind of event where things didn't go as planned, and they become more memorable? Like, who's been to a wedding where the bride trips down the aisle on her dress? I'm guessing that's gonna be more memorable in your category of weddings in your mind, than all the ones that went as planned and there was no, no, no surprise, right?
Ray Loewe26:30
Yeah, absolutely. All right. So let's hope that people sit down and think a little bit about Do I have a story? Or what is my story? How do I want to tell it not do I want to tell it? And let's get prepared for the next month of July because it's going to be intriguing. And if you think a little bit about what you want to do, you'll have some great output from our podcasts, any last-minute other things that you want to leave with our listeners Bonnie?
Bonnie Shay27:04
Now, I think we'll leave them in suspense till our rest of the podcast, but I think we've intrigued people and, Oh, actually, one thing I would like to share. So I've known Ray for quite a few years. And I learned very early on one of his favorite words is interesting. And I've been thinking that along the line of storytelling because interesting is more memorable than boring.
Ray Loewe27:30
Yes, always, always, you know, and, you know, storytelling will help you at a cocktail party. It'll help you communicate with your children, grandchildren, and people around you. It will make uh some of the things that you want to leave memorable. And let me close this thing with one last story. This is one of my stories. My wife, Sandy, and I were in Antarctica a while ago. And when you're on one of these expedition, style trips, what happens as you get up in the morning, going out on an excursion you come back for lunch, you go out late in the afternoon, usually after a nap. And you can do that because it's light 24 hours a day. And we met a couple at dinner the night before, and we didn't see them on the excursion the next day to see a particular type of penguin in this case. And when we accosted them at dinner that night, they said, Well, we got up in the morning and we looked at the hill, we had to walk up and we didn't think we could make it up the hill. And I just was shocked that they didn't go and I just didn't say anything. And they added in there that we put off this trip until we felt financially secure. And now we are we have plenty of money. But we can't do those things physically that we wanted to be able to do. And the interesting thing about this is when I tell this penguin story, people come up to me they remember the penguins, you know, and they remember the story. And so crafting storytelling is an art form that any of us can develop. And we have all these media that Bonnie brought forth. Photos, film writings, just oral storytelling. So, Bonnie, I look forward to the month of July, and hopefully, you do too. And we're going to have some great guests and I hope everybody stays tuned. Have a great day everybody.
Kris Parsons29:36
Thank you for listening to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do that too. Join us with your lively host Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world.