This week we are joined by John Thackrah, retired DuPont Sales and Marketing Executive. He shares with us a wonderful story about the ABC's of a successful career. He walks us through each one of the concepts and explains the importance of each when choosing a career path. He explains that you will need to take a deep look at yourself on the journey. Are you looking at choosing a career path or even changing your career? Then you don't want to miss this podcast.
Podcast Guest: John Thackrah
Transcription:
Kris Parsons00:00
Welcome to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do it too. Join us with your lively host Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world.
Ray Loewe00:16
Good morning, everybody. This is Ray Loewe, otherwise known as the luckiest guy in the world. And we're broadcasting remotely today we have Taylor, who's sitting in the Wildfire Studios. I'm at home doing this from my study. And our guest today is in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. And I'm going to introduce John Thackrah in a couple of minutes. But let me remind everybody that the name of our show is Changing the Rules. And through our lives have, we're given a whole lot of rules. And they start with our parents when we're very young, and then they go on to the schools, and then the church gives us rules. And then our jobs give us rules. And most of these rules have a lot of sense when they're given to us. But many of them become obsolete and get in the way, as we move through life. One of the things that rules do is they tell us what we can do and what we can't do. And if we live our lives by other people's rules, we're living their lives, not our lives. So we find this group of people that we kind of represents here, the luckiest people in the world, are pretty good at making the rules do what they need them to do as they go through life. And every week, we get a great opportunity, we get to feature one of the luckiest people in the world. And the luckiest people in the world are those people who design their own lives and then live them under their own terms. And you're going to find today, our guest does that exactly. And he's done it all of his life. And he's taken control of his life. And he's had a very, very successful life. So John Thackrah, John to say hi, first to everybody. Hi, Ray and thank you. Okay, so So John had a very successful life, mostly at the DuPont Company. And John is now retired. And we had a chance to talk the other day reflecting on some of the things that you know, he thought he did really well in his life. And he had a secret success formula here. So, so John, let's start out by talking a little bit about who you are, your education, and your family, your DuPont career. And one of the things I really want you to focus on is how you measured your success at DuPont.
John Thackrah02:44
Okay, I first Thank you, Ray, for this opportunity to talk about the ABCs of a career. I've been living with it for most of my life and using it for most of my life. So it's nice to have an opportunity to do a podcast on this subject. I was born and raised in Philadelphia, in the West Oak Lane area of Philadelphia. Very, very nice community when I was growing up there, at a wonderful time growing up there. I went to Germantown High School. And that's significant because, in 11th grade, I met a girl by the name of Doris Van Skiver. And we went together and did a lot of things together. And subsequently, in 1953, we got married. So that started a long and wonderful relationship. I went to Philadelphia Textile Institute after graduating from high school. And that's somewhat significant for me because my grandfather, two uncles, and my father all went to Philadelphia Textile School. It was located Broad and Pine Street down in South Philadelphia for 67 years. And in 1949, they moved out to Schoolhouse Lane and Henry Avenue and build a new campus. And we were the first class to go into that campus. They changed the name from Philadelphia Textile School to Philadelphia Textile Institute. And the reason being that they were able to offer a degree in chemistry. And that's the course that I wanted to pursue. So I went there after graduating from Philadelphia Textile Institute, I was I got an opportunity to work for the DuPont Company in the dyes and chemicals division of the organic chemicals department at that time. At that time, the DuPont Company was broken into a series of departments. And this was the organic chemicals department and in the dyes division of that department. Now dyes just for everybody's information are used for coloring textiles, paper, leather, all the things that we know carpeting. And it's a very interesting business that was a very big business in the United States, the fifth largest employer in this company was the textile industry up until about 25 years ago when it's really all moved off to China and other places in the world, unfortunately, because it was such a big employer. But I had a 42-year career with DuPont. And I started with a wonderful title, my title was a dye sales trainee. And literally what the company did was bring people like me into their operation, and then taught me a whole lot about the company because they didn't want me to go on the road and represent the DuPont Company without knowing a lot about the company, so if people wanted to learn something, they could ask me a question. And hopefully, I would have had an experience that would let them make the right contact inside the DuPont Company. My career, I sold direct sales of dyes, I was a tech rep for some time. And then I started to get some promotions and moved up the ladder in the dye business till 1979 When DuPont decided to go out of the dye business. And I was left kind of hanging on the line but was fortunate and able to get into the colored pigments business, which is related but totally different. The pigments, businesses in paints, auto paints, house paints, plastic colors. So it's a totally different business. I spent some time in that and finished my career and specialty chemicals, especially by the time I went into the specialty chemicals organization, the company had changed their structures, they had five strategic business units. And I was in specialty chemicals strategic business unit of the DuPont Company and wound up as the director of sales and marketing of that organization, which was a pretty wonderful job, a great career, my career took me all over the world to be all over the country. And I learned a lot about the world and the people in it.
Ray Loewe07:15
And thanks for sharing that. But talk a bit about your family and your kids. You have several kids, you got children, you got grandchildren, you got great-grandchildren, right.
John Thackrah07:29
That's just what I wanted. I was just going to take off on a back to Doris, Mary Doris van skiver, in 1953. And we had two children, and two wonderful children, and four grandchildren. And just last November 4th, my first great-grandson was born, which is really a wonderful experience. So my kids, I think did very well. They certainly heard about the the the ABCs of a career. But we were married. Doris and I were married for 67 years. And she passed away a year and a half ago here at Willow Valley. So that's kind of the background that I was going to give you about my family unless you want to know more about my kids what they're doing now and so forth.
Ray Loewe08:21
I think what we really want to focus on right now is you had a successful career. And obviously, you went through all the ups and downs of building a career. And it sounds to me like you had some pretty good direction along the way. But I know for a fact that you had a secret weapon here. Okay. And the secret weapon goes back to World War One. And uncle and somebody named Colonel Brown. I think so without divulging the ABCs yet because that's top secret. We'll get there. Tell us a little bit about how this stuff got into your life from World War One.
John Thackrah09:03
Okay, that's, I think, kind of a nifty story. My Uncle Al, my father's brother was born four years before my father in 1896. So he wound up in the First World War and went to France as enlisted man. And his commander was a colonel, a Colonel Brown. Colonel Brown was a really wonderful guy. He was the owner of a textile mill in Germantown. And so my uncle Al growing up in Germantown that kind of brought the two of them together. And they were over in France, and from the way, I was told the story when the war was over. Colonel Brown, being a good friend of my uncles said Al what are you going to do when you get back to the states and my uncle said, I have no idea. And Colonel Brown said that's a that's an unsatisfactory answer. And I'm going to tell you a little bit about what how you should be thinking. And he gave my uncle the ABCs of a career, that I have no idea where he got it or when he got it, but all we know now is it's well over 100 years old, been around for a long time, and has been useful for for for that whole time, and will be useful 100 years from now. So it works. You're a proven example that it works. Is that correct? Yeah. What happened was this uncle of mine, really a nifty guy, he never had any children. So I was kind of his adopted son and my Uncle Al and I spent a lot of time together. I'd go see him, he lived in the Onley area not too far from West Oak Lane, I got a chance to see him quite often. When I was getting close to graduating from Germantown High School, we had lunch together one day. And by the way, in 1944, he went blind, totally blind because of a detached retina. And so he, he had a seeing-eye dog by that time, and I took him to Morristown, New Jersey to get his dog. So I know a lot about Becky, his seeing-eye dog. But we were having lunch together. And he said, What are you going to do when you graduate from high school? And I said, I really don't know. He said, that's an unsatisfactory answer, I want to give you something to think about. And then he told me, what happened to him at the end of the First World War. He said I'm going to talk to you about the ABCs of a career. And he said, I hope this works for you, as well as it worked for him. As a blind guy, I always thought that was kind of wonderful for him to feel that way. But anyway, I think now might be a good time, if I just walk you through what the ABCs are.
Ray Loewe11:55
Okay, you're on go to let's start with the A's and that, and then we'll work to the C's.
John Thackrah12:01
Okay? A stands for all about you. And I find that it's very simple to say, and involves two questions. And the two questions are, what do you really like to do? And what do you really do well? And what my uncle explained to me was, you've been going to school for all these years, you run around the streets of Philadelphia, and you go on vacations, you things and when you're going to school, you think you're there to get grades, and that's all true. But the fact of the matter is what's going on is you're learning all about you, you're learning what you really do well, and what you like to do. And if you can really get a grip on that, it will be the best information you can have to lead you to, to a career choice. And this career choice is an extremely important thing for you to make. Because if you make the wrong one, it can lead to all kinds of problems. So this issue of what do you know all about you? And can you put it down on a piece of paper, what you really like to do and what you really do well? It's, it's a, it's a great thing to do, it will give you the clue to what kind of career you should pursue. So for me, we spent time that day talking about me, what did I really like to do? And what did I do well, and as things I told you earlier that my family was very much associated with the textile industry and the dye business. So the bottom line was, I was the kind of person that he at least said, I think you can sell. And he said, therefore I think you ought to be selling something either in the textile industry, maybe dyes, maybe chemicals, maybe finishes. But he has spent time in the textile industry, he went to textile school. And he said, I think that's a, I'd be a good choice for you. Selling is a wonderful career if you can do it. He said I think you have the talent to do it. I think you ought to pursue it. But you got to get an education so that you can sell, sell something that will be good for you and good for the company that you work for. So we spent that time talking and concluding that what he thought I should do. And that of course involves going to fill off your textiles to this new campus that was going to be located at Schoolhouse Lane and Henry Avenue. He knew a lot of people there. And so he certainly was going to help me a little bit and getting okay to go to go to the school. And then he went into, I guess two things that are important. One is what he said was the definition of success. I guess I'd like to read it to you so I say it exactly as he gave it to me. By the way, I took some notes that day was your good because it the whole concept laid inside me until I decided to write about it in the late 1990s. But success as he defined it was achieving a sustained high level of interest in your work and being satisfied and proud of what you do over a period of many years. So that's a very important part of the whole thing you could describe success is how high you go in an organization, how much money you make all kinds of different ways. But that was his definition that he got, from Colonel Brown. So we then move into the B's and the C's, if you'd like me to cover that.
Ray Loewe15:31
Yeah, let's do the short version of it because I've got a bunch of questions for you that I think our listeners are going to want the answers to. So give us the quick version of the B's and the C's.
John Thackrah15:42
Okay? Uh B stands for behavior. And what he told me is, you're going to face two kinds of behaviors for the rest of your life. One will be social, want to be professional? So you go to work, and you have all kinds of things that you get involved in, what kind of person are you everything from? Somebody asks you to do work? How do you behave when that happens? How do you deal with the people you're around? And when How do you handle the work that you're asked to do? And, and so in your working life, you're going to have all kinds of things you face, that will impact your behavior. And it will be extremely important, whether you're alone in your own business, or whether you're working for a large corporation, behavior becomes an absolutely a critical factor. And what he explained to me was, there will be people that there's no doubt they would, they will be better than you. But, they will hurt themselves because they will make behavior decisions that are not good ones. And whether it's drinking, or gambling, or all the kinds of things that we might think about, or are on the list of things you can get in trouble with, you need to be conscious of the fact that these things occur, whether you're outside your job, or inside your job. So be very much aware of the letter B for behavior. That's the short version.
Ray Loewe17:16
Okay, let's get into C's over here.
John Thackrah17:20
And see I found interesting, and that C stands for competitor, what kind of competitor you're going to be. And what my uncle told me was, the day you go to work, whether you like it or not, you're going to start competing. If you have your own business, you will compete with whoever your businesses competing with in the world you're working in, you're working for a corporation, to be all kinds of people around and you'll be competing with them. Your management will be watching you and seeing how hard you work. What kind of results do you deliver, when they give you projects to do all kinds of things that are associated, but the bottom line is you're competing. So athletes compete, try to win. And in business, you try to win in whatever you're doing in your business community. So being a good competitor means you want to be fair, you want to be good, you want to do what's right. But you want to win. And that becomes a very important part of your character. And, and a very important part of the judgment that management puts on you. And so I found that there was no doubt in my world, I worked for a very large corporation that I was competing with a lot of people and I recognized that some of them were better than I was in a lot of categories. But if I didn't get into some of the difficulties that I saw, some of them get into, it was certainly helpful for me. So there are the three parts of the ABCs all about you, your behavior, and what kind of competitor you're going to be.
Ray Loewe19:07
Okay, this is a great set of tools. And what you've also done is you sent me a kind of a PDF or an electronic document that summarizes all of this. And when we do our podcast notes and summarize, we'll put away that people can get a copy of this if they want. And this will allow them to get into the a's and the B's and the C's a little bit more. But there are a couple of things that you mentioned here that I think are really important. Number one, how many times in your life did the A-B's and C's did you have to go back into them because things changed and you had to reinvent yourself?
John Thackrah19:51
Well, that's a tough question over a 42-year career but I think probably I recognized how competitive an arena I was working in certainly when I was on the road selling dyes for the DuPont Company all over the east coast of the United States, it was a tough job and a very, very competitive job. What I think really struck me was when I got into some of the management jobs that I held, I had people reporting to me, and, and what happened was, on many occasions, and I, you know, I could talk, talk about these for a long, long time about details. But what was happening was people would come into my office, and say, I'm a Ph.D. chemist, I'm a research chemist for the DuPont Company, I hate it, I don't like what I'm doing. I would love to get into the marketing world, that's where I think I belong, or somebody else would come in and say, I really think I'm a financial person, I don't want to be selling. And I would have to deal with and listen to their story of what was always a sad story, they had gone to school, they got a degree, the fact that matter is, they didn't work very hard and all about you the A part of the ABCs, they got into education, because maybe somebody told them, they should be a chemist, or somebody told them they should be in the financial world. And they got into it and didn't like it. So now they looked at a large corporation. And saw what they thought was where they wanted to work, and came to me to see whether or not they could get transferred into where they wanted to be. So this really struck me because what it said to me was, how critical this A part of the ABCs is, and all parts of it are critical. But that's the big one. If you choose the wrong career path, right from the get-go, you're probably going to wind up like a lot of these people would say I come to work every day and just put an x on the calendar, I get rid of that day. And it's almost inconceivable to me because I can only say I spent my 42 years. And you know, I had bad days and bad trips and travel experiences, whatever. But all I can say is I had a fantastic career that I couldn't wait to get after I was really afraid to retire because I was having so much fun and enjoyed it so much. But because I was doing what I like to do, and that I could do well. And that's really the simple bottom line. And to hear these stories. What that led to was, after retirement, I just talked, I talked to every one of these people about the ABCs. It's unfortunate that you didn't learn a lot about all about you. And you pick the wrong path. So now we have to try to make a change. And we did, we made a lot of changes because it's good for the company. And it was good for them. An employer and employee was drawing X's on a calendar every day, when they go to work is a horrible situation. We want them to be excited to go in there and do the best they can to help themselves and the company. So those changes were made. And what that did to me was after I retired, I decided I didn't want to just let this thing drop and fade away. I'd write something about it. So I put the little brochure together that you're talking about. And I thought it was interesting. In retirement, I was a member of The Elks in Cecilton, Maryland, and showed it to a couple of guys that were in the Elks with me. And they liked it so much. We talked to these people in schools down there and Cecilton High School. They put one of these pamphlets on all the high school graduate seats when they were graduating all the graduating classes each year, they would all read this thing. The reason being they're all 17, 16, 18 years old, and they're making this critical decision, what do I want to do? What career do I want to pursue? This thing would at least make them understand how important it was for them to know about themselves. And, and so that that happened, and I doubt if it's still going on down there, but I certainly and in my retirement years, I've run across a lot of grandparents who talk about their grandchildren who don't know what they want to do for a living and I'd always give them a copy of The ABCs and talk about it. And it works. It's very simple. And a lot of people have sent me notes and letters telling me that they were stumbling over what they tried to figure out what they wanted to do. And now after looking at this, they took a hard look at themselves and have a pretty good idea what they want to do. So so that's kind of how it worked, and how it's been used. And it's been out there for a long time and at least I feel comfortable that it's and today getting a little boost also So through the, through your efforts to maybe find a few more people that might find this very important to them at a stage in their life while they're trying to make a career selection decision.
Ray Loewe25:12
Cool. Well, you know, unfortunately, time flies when you're having fun, and we're nearing the end of our time of it here of John. But we're gonna have you back because you're certainly one of the luckiest people in the world. And you raised several more questions I want to talk about later, and another podcast about how important the mentorship of your uncle was to you, and how important you were as a mentor to other people. Because I think a lot of this stuff you can't do by yourself. And I kind of have another secret for everybody because I think the real reason you're doing this podcast is you want to share with everybody else, but I think he had this great-grandson. And you want to get this message to him at some point in time. And I think it's a great message. And you know, the all about you. It really is everything, and people don't take enough time to deal with it. So why do you have we have time for a quick closing moment? Do you have one last thing you want to get across?
John Thackrah26:14
Well, I guess I would like to say that here I am, at age 90, retired here at the Willow Valley. And I believe it, the ABCs are still cooking in me because today I play golf, I shoot pool and I compete, I try to win. And I believe that's just a reflection of the ABCs that I still want to be a good competitor. I still want to I want to behave myself, of course old age makes you behave yourself. But I just think the ABCs are still with me. And every opportunity I can hear at this wonderful place that we live. I'm able to share the ABCs with a lot of people here who can pass it on to their family members. So I hope it continues to help people for a long time.
Ray Loewe27:00
Okay, so look at our podcast notes. Everybody we'll show you how to get a copy of The ABCs. And John, thank you so much for being with us today. You're certainly one of the luckiest people in the world. You have it together here, don't you? And Taylor, time's up joining us next week. We're gonna have another exciting guest and Taylor, why don't you sign us on please.
Kris Parsons27:23
Thank you for listening to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do that too. Join us with your lively host Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world.