This week we talk with Kim Schaller, an adventure travel enthusiast. She shares with us her passion for travel, how she finds trips and meets up with groups around the world. Kim details her active adventures in Bhutan, the land of happiness, Patagonia, and Iceland and emphasizes her philosophy to do what scares her and take those trips that she may not be able to take when she's older.
Transcription:
Ray Loewe00:02
Welcome to Changing the Rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best lives and advice on how you can achieve that too. Join us with your lively host, Ray Lowe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world. Good morning everybody and welcome to our new podcast studio in Willow Valley, Pennsylvania. And we're here with brand new equipment, we have an engineer with us, Steve Wright, and Steve's at, I guess you call it a keyboard. Steve, I don't know what it is, but you manipulate things to make us sound better. All right. And I've got a great guest today. But before we get into the guest, I want to go back and mention the luckiest people in the world. So, the luckiest people in the world are those people who design their own lives, and then step into them and live them under their own terms. And you're going to see today that Kim is definitely one of those people. And the name of our show is Changing the Rules. And you know, all through our lives, we've been fed rules. We got them from our parents, the schools came in and threw new rules at us, then our jobs throw rules at us, the church thows rules at us. And in between, we've had other people that throw rules at us. And I think it was Steve Jobs that said that if you live your life by somebody else's rules, you're not living your life. And if you think about it, rules are meant for two things. They either tell you what you can't do or what you have to do. So, the luckiest people in the world are pretty good at sifting through those rules and changing them to make them fit their lifestyle and the lifestyle that they want to have. So today our guest is from downtown Lititz, Pennsylvania, about 10 miles away from here. And there are four themes that she mentioned to me when we did our pre-interview. So here's what they are: Chocolate is a recurring theme in my life. All right. Adventure travel is a recurring theme in my life. I make my choices so that I can be happy. And last but not least, I love my life. So, Kim Schaller, I hope I pronounced that right, is our guest today. And Kim say hello to everybody.
Kim Schaller02:39
Hi, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you.
Ray Loewe02:42
Okay, well, you've had an exciting life. And I think what's going to happen is after this is done, everybody, first of all is going to know you're one of the luckiest people in the world. And then second of all, they're all going to want your life. So let's talk a little bit about going back. You worked many, many years for Hershey, right?
Kim Schaller03:02
I did, 31 years.
Ray Loewe03:04
31 years. So there is chocolate in your life, right?
Kim Schaller03:08
There is chocolate in my life for sure.
Ray Loewe03:10
And now you live in a condo, which is in what?
Kim Schaller03:14
In the old Wilbur Chocolate Factory. So I worked for a chocolate company and I live in a chocolate factory.
Ray Loewe03:19
And I would bet that somewhere between you eat chocolate too?
Kim Schaller03:22
I do.
Ray Loewe03:23
Yeah, isn't that wonderful?
Kim Schaller03:24
You know, I think when chocolate is around you, I'm just sort of immune to the lure at this point. It's there, but I do enjoy it.
Ray Loewe03:32
Okay, so you've had those two things, and then at this point in your life, your life is composed of being on several advisory boards, we're not going to take the time to talk about all of them. But you're active, you keep your mind active and stuff like that. But what we really want to talk about is the adventure travel that you are doing. Okay, and I think this is what. I'm searching for a word here, but this is what Kim's life is all about. And I think the first thing to start with is you're single, right?
Kim Schaller04:08
I am. I was married 26 years, but I'm single now.
Ray Loewe04:11
And you don't let this stop you from going anywhere.
Kim Schaller04:15
No, I don't.
Ray Loewe04:16
So, everybody out there that's single, get rid of the barriers right now. There's no excuse.
Kim Schaller04:22
Especially single women. I think a lot of women don't want to do that. There's a definite risk and there's fear. But you just have to do it.
Ray Loewe04:30
And you don't really travel alone. I mean, you leave alone, you're by yourself, but you join groups of people. So you're not alone. And there's some structure there and you get to meet a whole bunch of people that you didn't know before.
Kim Schaller04:41
Right, I'm into active travel. So I've traveled with companies that do hiking and biking and multi-adventure trips all around the world. I start out alone and I will usually visit the country for a couple days on my own before the trip actually starts. And then I meet all kinds of interesting people. The trips range from 10 to 20 people and we bike and hike and kayak. And so I love it. I love it.
Ray Loewe05:05
Okay, so give us an example of someplace you've been recently that excited you?
Kim Schaller05:10
Well, I'll tell you what. I mean, I figure I'm 64 years old, I've got plenty of years ahead. And I have spent quite a bit of time in Europe. But these trips, I go to places that really scare me, I go, the further away, the better. So I've been to Patagonia, I've been to Bhutan, I did the Mont Blanc circuit and France and Italy and Switzerland, Iceland. I go places that I know, the older I get, and I know courage is going to be a big thing as I get older, so I go to the places that scare me now. So that's been my sort of philosophy on travel.
Ray Loewe05:42
And, you know, we met some people in Antarctica a long time ago in and the story that I remember the most is, we used to go out every day on an excursion. And one day, the people we had dinner with the night before just didn't go out. And I cornered them at lunch. And I said, where were you this morning? They said, well, we looked at the hill we had to walk up and we didn't think we could make it. And that's been a lesson that has stuck with me. They came back and said, you know, we put off this trip until we felt stronger financially. And now we feel really strong financially, and we have the time available, and we can't walk up the hill.
Kim Schaller06:19
I know. Exactly. That's a great illustration of what I'm talking about. We've gotta do it now.
Ray Loewe06:24
Okay, so give me an example of the kinds of groups that you might travel with. And you know, where do you find these things? How do you get the idea for your next trip?
Kim Schaller06:32
Well, the biggest company that I've worked for is Backroads. And they're headquartered in Berkeley, California, and you just got to backroads.com. And there's trips literally all over the world with all different difficulty levels. So if you're looking for a simpler kind of hiking trip, you do that, but the challenging ones right now are the ones I've been going for. So it keeps me fit. It just keeps me realizing that there's a big world out there. Well, COVID really screwed with me though. I had to cancel two trips during COVID that I was really excited for. But backroads I would really recommend people take a look at that.
Ray Loewe07:07
Well, I would bet you didn't cancel them, you postponed them.
Kim Schaller07:10
I postponed them. But yeah, Machu Picchu was one of them that I was really looking forward to. But it is postponed. Exactly.
Ray Loewe07:18
So when you go on one of these trips, and they say there's hiking on it, how far will you walk a day when you do these things?
Kim Schaller07:25
Well, it depends. Like a challenging trip, you could hike, I don't know, 15 miles a day. But the challenging part is the elevation, the elevation gains. When you did Mont Blanc, we were doing elevation gains of 4,000 feet a day. So you hike up 4,000 feet and down 4,000 feet. So it was the elevation that really gets me, not the distance.
Ray Loewe07:46
So, for you, you know you have to be in shape. But you're telling us also that if you're not in as good shape as you are, there are still trips?
Kim Schaller07:54
There are still trips.
Ray Loewe07:54
Yeah. Okay, so let's take a couple of examples. Now you were talking about Bhutan? Land of Happiness. So give us a couple minutes here.
Kim Schaller08:07
Well, that was one right after I retired, I retired seven years ago. And happy had always been part of my career. I worked for Hershey, and if people know, Hershey Park happiness or Hershey is one of the key brand attributes of Hershey. So I was fascinated with this whole happiness concept. And I heard about Bhutan, where they measure the citizen's happiness versus gross national product. They're less focused on economic factors and more on lifestyle and wellbeing. So that just really intrigued me. So I went there. It's a little tiny country of about 800,000 people between China and India. And it is just a fascinating place. So that's where I went.
Ray Loewe08:49
So when you talk about fascinating now you're mingling with local people, right? And so what makes them.. why are they happy?
Kim Schaller08:57
Well, because they understand that the leadership of the country puts their happiness ahead of economic development. So nature, which is their key, natural resources is the key to Bhutan's success. 70% of the country is still forested. Tourism is a big aspect for them, but they are really trying to manage the level of tourism so life doesn't change too dramatically.
Ray Loewe09:21
You mean, they are actually leaders that want to make you happy?
Kim Schaller09:25
They are leaders that focus on that.
Ray Loewe09:27
Okay, you find some of them for us?
Kim Schaller09:29
Exactly. And they measure it, every two years, they do a survey of the population to see how they're tracking with happiness. And I'll tell you, they're not the happiest country in the world, like Finland and Norway score higher, but they're working at it, which is what I believe is progress.
Ray Loewe09:47
Okay. Now another one. This is one I've always wanted to go to, and I've been on the fringes of this one but Patagonia. So I was down at the bottom of South America, Ushuaia you know, it's kind of where you enter one way to Patagonia but what's Patagonia all about? What do you do when you're there?
Kim Schaller10:07
I hiked. I mean that's basically what did, I hiked. But I was telling you before the best thing about Patagonia is you're in the same time zone it get on a plane and travel 15 hours south but you still don't have to adjust to a different time zone. So you can literally hit the ground running when you get there. Which is what we did, hit the ground hiking.
Ray Loewe10:27
Okay, now you're saying you hiked but you know, when you take these trips that you take, they do portage luggage and things like that. I'm not carrying my two suitcases.
Kim Schaller10:39
Let's be clear. I am not into getting in a tent and sleeping overnight. No, we stay in beautiful hotels unique to the regions. But no, you get in a van and they take you from trailhead to trailhead. And I'm not carrying my bag so we should be clear. I don't want to mislead anybody.
Ray Loewe10:56
Yeah, especially older folk like me. You know, I'm into hiking but I'm also not into camping. You know, my idea of camping is at least a Marriott.
Kim Schaller11:07
I need a bed. Yes.
Ray Loewe11:10
All right, so what enthralled you about Patagonia? Why would I want to go there?
Kim Schaller11:15
I think it truly felt to me otherworldly. It is so spectacularly beautiful. We spent one day just hiking on a glacier, which I think everybody at some point in your life, you need to experience these kinds of things.
Ray Loewe11:29
And Patagonia is where? It's the southern part of Chile?
Kim Schaller11:34
We actually were on the Brazil on that other side, the Argentina side, but we saw the Chilean mountains and they said over across that ridge is Chile. So yeah, we were right there.
Ray Loewe11:45
Okay, how's the wine in those areas?
Kim Schaller11:47
The wine is great. The food is great.
Ray Loewe11:50
We have to get the important things. You know, our engineer is sitting here, thinking you know, hiking is okay. But you know a glass of wine at night is a necessary part of things.
Kim Schaller12:00
And that's the camaraderie and that's how you build the relationships at night to sit and have a glass of wine and just reminisce about your day.
Ray Loewe12:06
Okay, talk about Iceland.
Kim Schaller12:08
And Iceland is so easy to get to from the northeast. I mean, I think if you live in California, it's a whole different thing. But you're there in a quick number of hours, direct flight into Reykjavik. And it was also like the otherworldly places, places that just don't look like anything you see in the US.
Ray Loewe12:27
So I have been to Iceland. And one of the things I remember this is not going to be one of your highlights. There's actually a Pizza Hut in Reykjavik.
Kim Schaller12:35
And there's a McDonald's too which is mortifying.
Ray Loewe12:38
And well, I stay away from that. But we finally got to the point where one night we just had to have a pizza. So we go to this place and the pizza is different. You know, and if you think about it, the pizza is heavy in cheese, light in tomato sauce because goats and cows are readily available but tomatoes? Trying to grow those in the northern climates doesn't work.
Kim Schaller13:00
No, it's all hothouse. They grow everything there.
Ray Loewe13:03
So I take it you have not done the Pizza Hut?
Kim Schaller13:05
No, I have not. I ate and, don't judge me, but I did it because when in Rome, I ate whale, I ate puffin, I ate horse. So, I felt the need to try the things that were to that area. So I tried them. And I'm still here. I did feel bad about the puffin though. Those adorable birds are just everywhere. And I ate one.
Ray Loewe13:31
Okay, I'm gonna let that just kind of sit and dangle here. You know, it's a shame you're not passionate about this travel. Okay, so where else have you been that we have to talk about, and then where haven't you been that you're going next?
Kim Schaller13:48
My next trip is Morocco. That's coming up in the fall. I'm gonna go to Morocco and go to Casablanca, which I'm really excited for. That will be the pretrip, but just hiking out into the desert in Morocco and riding a camel and so that's coming up. I've been to Costa Rica, I've been to Belize, Cartagena. I really like South America, that seems to be a place where I have a lot of interest in.
Ray Loewe14:12
Now what causes that? Just uniquely you think?
Kim Schaller14:18
I don't know. I think maybe I have this sort of anti-Europe thing at this point. Because I feel like I can go to Europe easily as I get older, but I want to go to the places like I was in Columbia, South America. And it's kind of a pretty scary place when you're going through the forest and not knowing what's going to be around the next corner. So it's a fear thing. I'm just, I want to conquer those, and then I feel like I can go to the tamer, calmer, more civilized places.
Ray Loewe14:46
All right. I'm thinking here, you've got my mind going a mile a minute, you know, and I thought I'd been to a lot of places but you've been a lot of places that I haven't been to.
Kim Schaller14:58
That was the goal when I started my travel and again, I didn't start this until after I retired. Because I was like a lot of people, I was a working person, raising a daughter, doing all the more traditional vacations while raising her. You know, Disney World, Turks, and Caicos, Jamaica, like all the things that other people do.
Ray Loewe15:18
Now, how do you stay in shape for this? I mean, do you actually have to a workout routine so that you can take your trips?
Kim Schaller15:24
I do. And I have a big dog, I have a golden retriever, who it's required daily walking with him. So, I do a lot of walking. I bike around Lancaster County, which is just such a beautiful biking destination, but I do have an E-bike. So, full disclosure, I have an E-bike. Just because I want to protect my knees, and I love biking.
Ray Loewe15:46
So okay, let's get into some advice here. So, I think I know that when people listen to this, they're gonna say, oh, my God, where did this lady come from? You know, how did she do this? Why? Why did she do all of these things? So talk a little bit about, and you can structure this towards single females if you want, or you can structure it towards anybody. What's important when you think about your future and how you're doing this, why do people want to get out? How do they get out? What are the things that they have to do?
Kim Schaller16:14
I think, for me, as I said, I was married for 26 years. I just have complete freedom right now. I don't have to compromise. I don't have to share and this might sound like I'm so selfish, but I am just loving this stage of my life. Doesn't mean I want to be alone for the rest of my life. But it just means that I really love the opportunity that I have to do what I want, when I want.
Ray Loewe16:46
Okay, the first trip that you took alone, where was it to?
Kim Schaller16:50
I went to Sevilla, I'd hiked from Granada to Sevilla in Spain. That was my first one.
Ray Loewe16:56
Go to lady.
Kim Schaller16:58
No, I don't think that and I don't think I'm extraordinary in any way. I think this is within every single person. You just have to do it. Because we've got one chance here, we're here once. So if we don't do it now, I don't want to be at the end of my life and just wish I would have done things.
Ray Loewe17:18
Okay, I think that's probably a good place to stop. But we're not going to stop there. I've got one more question. So if you're looking at the world, how many countries do you think you've been in?
Kim Schaller17:29
I don't know. I haven't counted. I need to do that.
Ray Loewe17:32
And how many continents? What continents haven't you been on yet?
Kim Schaller17:37
I haven't been to Australia. I haven't been to New Zealand. I haven't been to Soviet Union. I haven't been there's been a lot of places I haven't been, truly.
Ray Loewe17:48
So, you're gonna live to be 140 years old. So you can get these all in.
Kim Schaller17:52
I'm gonna try.
Ray Loewe17:53
Yeah. And I think that's one of the big lessons that I'm gathering from you is that it's a really big world. And if you want to see any of it, you better get off your tail and get moving too.
Kim Schaller18:03
And get over the fear.
Ray Loewe18:04
All right, we're about out of time. Any last-minute comments before we sign off?
Kim Schaller18:08
No, Ray. And you inspire me too. I mean, you really do, people like you, people need to be listening to people like you.
Ray Loewe18:16
Okay, well, that's a commercial and we'll get you on the social media channels soon. And you can do that. But, you know, thanks so much for being you. And thanks for being here. Because, you know, the luckiest people in the world design their own lives, whatever they are. And in your case, it's obviously built around travel, and it's built around staying fit and healthy. And thanks for being a role model that you are and we're going to have to have you back after the next adventure just to catch up. All right. And let's, let's finish with one thing that emphasizes and I got this from a book a long time ago, and that is that there's no such thing as a bad trip. Only a good story.
Kim Schaller19:00
So true.
Ray Loewe19:01
So, Steve, sign us off, please. Thank you for listening to Changing the Rules. Join us next week for more conversation, our special guest and to hear more from the luckiest guy in the world.